Karachi, November 25, 2022 (PPI-OT): Pakistan’s Foreign Minister Bilawal Bhutto Zardari joins us now. Welcome.
FM: Thank you for having me.
Host: How big victory is this agreement for you?
FM: I think that this is, this is a big victory not for any one individual or any one country, but this is a big victory for all of those who suffered from the devastation of climate change. And its something that has been a long standing demand to allow countries who suffer exorbitantly as a result from climate change but didn’t necessarily contributed much to the position we find ourselves in for them to have an opportunity.
Host: There are still a lot to be decided. Tell us what the most immediate questions are and what the timeline is to answer them.
FM: The questions are who’s going to contribute to the front? How we gonna come up with the international financial mechanisms and who we gonna how we gonna get it to those who needed the most. Our time frame is the next cop hosted in the United Arab Emirates and I think that that sort of a good target for everyone to achieve.
Host: In the past, countries have failed to keep similar promises. Are you worried that they won’t follow through this time?
FM: So as the G77 plus China, obviously many, many countries are worried about our inability in the past to live up to some of our commitments and I think that is why it was so important to have the language on the Fund and I think it does. It goes a long way to show that people are committed to this.
Host: But ultimately it’s not binding, right, there’s no consequences if developed countries. Don’t follow through your kind of taking it on faith.
FM: Well, I think that they sort of the consequences for our planet as in for all of us, not just for the global north but also for the global south, not just for the developed world, but also for the developing world. And being in the position of chair of G 77 plus China. It was all the more important for us having gone through this strategy that this had to get done.
Host: You prefer to G 77 plus China, which is the group of developing nations China is currently the world’s largest emitter of the UN still considers it a developing country China has opposed paying into the fund. Do you think they should contribute?
FM: We’ve got a commitment to establish a fund and financial arrangements to address loss and damage and a timeline attached to that for us to work out the details. I look forward to working with all our partners with in G 77 and the UAE, which will be hosting the next COP.
Host: Express an opinion on whether or not China should pay.
FM: No it’s not about no, no it’s not about, it’s not about, not about who should or who should not pay into it. We all have to do our part to combat climate changes as far as China is concerned. I recently came back from there and they are leading the way as far as reforestation green energy sector.
But we all have to work together to collectively survive and combat these challenges without necessary you know sort of finger wagging with one side of the other that you know you’re doing to mention are doing.
Host: Now let’s imagine that this does get fully funded there is still inevitably. Going to be more need then there will be money. So who do you think should get first priority? How should decisions be made about where the money is spent?
FM: OH that’s a very, I think that’s a very interesting question. I think that would be difficult. Everybody faces their own challenge. I don’t think it’s gonna be a fund big enough that will cover every country. It’s not sort of a future problem is now because it’s not only Pakistan that has been damage, damage just this year. In fact Pakistan was first damaged by a historic Heatwaves, forest fires in a massive drought. And then followed by this, this, this, flooding that you see so a fund available can, you know, contribute in the way it will.
But if I had the space to be able to go to the World Bank, to the IMF, to maybe a climate bank, to other institutions where I would take my own loans at reasonable rates, given the fact that I’m dealing with sort of a climate catastrophe that would allow me access to the finances, I need to get my own people back on their own feet. And be able to counter the various challenges that we face.
Host: Despite the fact that this loss and damage fund was established, negotiators at the meeting still could not agree to phase out fossil fuels. And so, big picture, isn’t the world still on an unsustainable track?
FM: The pictures of the climate scientists are painting are extremely devastating and for us that that picture became in a reality, became reality for us. This is something that has an agency for now. I wish that there was a technical option. We can all agree that we’re going to turn off for cost of fuel addiction tomorrow. That’s not possible.
I think it’s it’s better that we achieved a practical consensus about something that we can do and can achieve rather than agreeing to something that we would be unable to achieve as off now.
Host: Pakistan’s foreign minister Bilawal Bhutto Zardari, thank you for joining us.
FM: Thank you. Thank you so much.
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